You may have heard of G-WAN, a notoriously fast web server. Other than the fact that the owner is a complete (bad word), and that it's useless to the general web development community in its current state (due to it being written in C, and requiring primarily C to extend it), it looks like the promised FCGI/SCGI support could make it something to look out for... what do you think of it?
3
G-WAN
Started By Heist, Apr 16 2012 05:43 AM
2 replies to this topic
#1
Heist
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#2
Grumpy
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Posted 19 May 2012 - 01:45 AM
Hi Heist,
Oops!
I'm quite surprised by the (bad word) you used to describe the owner of the Swiss company (Trustleap) that produces G-WAN, especially on this specific web site that obviously isn’t dedicated to web servers!
Did you ever meet him to use such a description of him?
I did!
Several years ago and several times, and since, I can tell you that not only he's one of the best developer I've ever met in my 35 years long carrier in the software industry (including the best of the best I used to work with in different labs at Borland, Compuware, IBM, ICL, HP, Olivetti and even Microsoft), but he's also a very NICE and FUN person.
Did you ever try to develop a web2 site or a rich web application using the multiple specificities of G-WAN?
I did!
Now, with regard to the G-WAN product itself, yes it's very fortunately written in ANSI C (small footprint, high performance and portability) as well as most (if not all) of its competitors!
But claiming that this web server (for static pages) and web application server (for dynamic contents) is "useless to the general Web development community in its current state due to extending it requires C" makes me think about the three following things:
1) that you did not take a look at G-WAN for a while (of course G-WAN can use the pure ANSI C to develop servlets since its inception 4 years ago, and that's the best performer choice), but G-WAN can also use any compiled language of the GCC (the GNU Compiler Collection) such as ADA, C++, D, Fortran, Modula2, Modula3 or Pascal, as well as Objective C and Objective C++ (that Apple developers love), but also GO, LUA and Python or Ruby (via handlers) and also the (for me) worst ever programming language that is Java. Further, G-WAN will very soon allow web beginner developers to use the good old BASIC language using the QB64 compiler to develop web2 sites and rich web applications (QB64 is developed by one of your cleaver Australian close and tough Rugby competitor).
2) that you seem to kind of restrict the entire web development community to the PHP developers (due to your reference to the FCGI/SCGI interface). Re Oops! First of all, if ZEND Technologies, the "purported" PHP company, was ever able to produce a working and bug free thread safe environment (that would have discouraged Facebook to develop their "poor" HipHop solution to try to boost PHP), G-WAN could use PHP right away in a couple of days. Unfortunately, ZEND doesn't want (or more obviously is unable) to develop such a release. And there are several political and financial reasons for that too, including especially their very (too) close links to the Apache foundation (the lowest Web server performer of the current contenders such as Cherokee, Rock, Lighttpd and Nginx). Then, second, unfortunately, and for multiple reasons, PHP is losing its market share (due to its limited performance, those being due to its incapability to run concurrent multi occurrences on multi core CPUs). But to be honest with you, I admit that I like to use PHP (including the last 5.4) for very small projects with few simultaneous connections. However, even when the FastCGI interface will be available for G-WAN (it's just a question of priority in the next 3 to 4 months), PHP servlets will never ever reach the speed of true compiled language as long as it will not provide a working and bug free PHPembed thread safe library. Will this ever append? I'd like to, but I doubt. Now, the developper web communiy is (fortunately) not limited to few millions of PHP developers (ask to IBM, Google, Microsoft and Oracle what they think about PHP).
3) and now worst, that you don't care at the entire huge gap of performances between G-WAN and any of its contenders. Please take a look at independent benchmarks (and I'm even not talking about the worst of them: IIS7 + C#).
So, yes, for now G-WAN lacks of a performing PHP support (and I can regret that too due to the incapability of ZEND to deliver a real thread safe solution or even better, to develop a true cross platform compiler that produces executable codes you can run whithout the need of a "bloated" VM)!
However, the support of PHP by G-WAN will come soon by two ways:
a- the finalization of a clean FastCGI interface (that will also be usable for other scripted languages) but that will not be the most efficient way to use the full power of multi core CPUs (if you've some way to kick the butts of some of the ZEND developers, don't hesitate and tell me what you'll get as a response since they never ever responded to my numerous e-mails including directly to Andi Gustman, Zeev Suraski and even the ZEND EMEA vice president Christian Durel).
b- the next G-WAN release that will act also as a reverse and caching proxy sending the specific PHP codes to any PHP capable server of your choice. Varnish will cry!
So, may I suggest amicably that you take a new look at G-WAN and its new capabilities.
This would (maybe and I hope so) change your mind and allow you to change the "bad word" you unfairly used both about both G-WAN and its developer.
If you need to, you can respond via private e-mail and we can even exchange source codes of quite complex rich web applications that compare, for the strictly exact same specifications their relevant performances. You may be very disappointed by the poor results of some of the purported modern scripting languages, including PHP.
Amicably looking forward.
King regards.
Grumpy.
PS: I'm not affiliated to G-WAN or Trustleap (its publisher) in any way. I'm only a long time user of the best ever Web server and Web Application Server using multiple programming languages even for web2 sites or rich web applications including but no limited to the sole PHP. No more, no less! Cheers.
Edited for typos!
Oops!
I'm quite surprised by the (bad word) you used to describe the owner of the Swiss company (Trustleap) that produces G-WAN, especially on this specific web site that obviously isn’t dedicated to web servers!
Did you ever meet him to use such a description of him?
I did!
Several years ago and several times, and since, I can tell you that not only he's one of the best developer I've ever met in my 35 years long carrier in the software industry (including the best of the best I used to work with in different labs at Borland, Compuware, IBM, ICL, HP, Olivetti and even Microsoft), but he's also a very NICE and FUN person.
Did you ever try to develop a web2 site or a rich web application using the multiple specificities of G-WAN?
I did!
Now, with regard to the G-WAN product itself, yes it's very fortunately written in ANSI C (small footprint, high performance and portability) as well as most (if not all) of its competitors!
But claiming that this web server (for static pages) and web application server (for dynamic contents) is "useless to the general Web development community in its current state due to extending it requires C" makes me think about the three following things:
1) that you did not take a look at G-WAN for a while (of course G-WAN can use the pure ANSI C to develop servlets since its inception 4 years ago, and that's the best performer choice), but G-WAN can also use any compiled language of the GCC (the GNU Compiler Collection) such as ADA, C++, D, Fortran, Modula2, Modula3 or Pascal, as well as Objective C and Objective C++ (that Apple developers love), but also GO, LUA and Python or Ruby (via handlers) and also the (for me) worst ever programming language that is Java. Further, G-WAN will very soon allow web beginner developers to use the good old BASIC language using the QB64 compiler to develop web2 sites and rich web applications (QB64 is developed by one of your cleaver Australian close and tough Rugby competitor).
2) that you seem to kind of restrict the entire web development community to the PHP developers (due to your reference to the FCGI/SCGI interface). Re Oops! First of all, if ZEND Technologies, the "purported" PHP company, was ever able to produce a working and bug free thread safe environment (that would have discouraged Facebook to develop their "poor" HipHop solution to try to boost PHP), G-WAN could use PHP right away in a couple of days. Unfortunately, ZEND doesn't want (or more obviously is unable) to develop such a release. And there are several political and financial reasons for that too, including especially their very (too) close links to the Apache foundation (the lowest Web server performer of the current contenders such as Cherokee, Rock, Lighttpd and Nginx). Then, second, unfortunately, and for multiple reasons, PHP is losing its market share (due to its limited performance, those being due to its incapability to run concurrent multi occurrences on multi core CPUs). But to be honest with you, I admit that I like to use PHP (including the last 5.4) for very small projects with few simultaneous connections. However, even when the FastCGI interface will be available for G-WAN (it's just a question of priority in the next 3 to 4 months), PHP servlets will never ever reach the speed of true compiled language as long as it will not provide a working and bug free PHPembed thread safe library. Will this ever append? I'd like to, but I doubt. Now, the developper web communiy is (fortunately) not limited to few millions of PHP developers (ask to IBM, Google, Microsoft and Oracle what they think about PHP).
3) and now worst, that you don't care at the entire huge gap of performances between G-WAN and any of its contenders. Please take a look at independent benchmarks (and I'm even not talking about the worst of them: IIS7 + C#).
So, yes, for now G-WAN lacks of a performing PHP support (and I can regret that too due to the incapability of ZEND to deliver a real thread safe solution or even better, to develop a true cross platform compiler that produces executable codes you can run whithout the need of a "bloated" VM)!
However, the support of PHP by G-WAN will come soon by two ways:
a- the finalization of a clean FastCGI interface (that will also be usable for other scripted languages) but that will not be the most efficient way to use the full power of multi core CPUs (if you've some way to kick the butts of some of the ZEND developers, don't hesitate and tell me what you'll get as a response since they never ever responded to my numerous e-mails including directly to Andi Gustman, Zeev Suraski and even the ZEND EMEA vice president Christian Durel).
b- the next G-WAN release that will act also as a reverse and caching proxy sending the specific PHP codes to any PHP capable server of your choice. Varnish will cry!
So, may I suggest amicably that you take a new look at G-WAN and its new capabilities.
This would (maybe and I hope so) change your mind and allow you to change the "bad word" you unfairly used both about both G-WAN and its developer.
If you need to, you can respond via private e-mail and we can even exchange source codes of quite complex rich web applications that compare, for the strictly exact same specifications their relevant performances. You may be very disappointed by the poor results of some of the purported modern scripting languages, including PHP.
Amicably looking forward.
King regards.
Grumpy.
PS: I'm not affiliated to G-WAN or Trustleap (its publisher) in any way. I'm only a long time user of the best ever Web server and Web Application Server using multiple programming languages even for web2 sites or rich web applications including but no limited to the sole PHP. No more, no less! Cheers.
Edited for typos!
Edited by Grumpy, 19 May 2012 - 12:36 PM.
#3
Grumpy
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Posted 13 June 2012 - 06:13 PM
Hello Heist,
Are you "speechless" when some real arguments don't go the way you hope they would?
Since you didn't find the time to respond to my note for almost a month, I reported your post as a "troll" to the moderators!
You've been unfair (bad word) both to G-WAN (that obviously you don't know), and to its developer (that you obviously never ever met)!
So far, was your post only but a usual and classic troll against something that (obviously) you don't understand?
I was hoping this very interesting forum would be more serious for such a real and constructive debate using strong and reproductible arguments!
So, please make your homework with G-WAN and come back here with true benchmarks of your own (if you’re able to understand and to install it, use weighttp on a multicore CPU and compare both static and dynamic contents rendered by G-WAN to any other purported leader such as: Apache, Cherokee, Lighttpd, Nginx, Zend and Varnish and if you want also with Glassfish) and let us know your serious analysis.
Now, if you’re a PHP lover (and I never ever won’t blame you for that even if you think that a small 32 words language (ANSI C) is less appropriate than a 6.000+ words (PHP) to develop something useful), ask to the two Zend's boss and purpored self proclamed Web gurus: Zeev Suraski and Andi Gutmans (zeev@zend.com or andi@zend.com) why their bloated damned code EXPLOSES as soon as you try to use it over than one single instance of PHP on a multicore system (available since 1994) and why their PHPembed purportedly thread safe isn't thread safe at all!
If you can get a response from them (I've been awaiting even a simple courtesy response from Zend for months), I will definitely be grateful to you to run some PHP sites with G-WAN.
Now, if you're appointed by any Trusleap and/or G-WAN competitor, it would be safe for all of our mental sanity to know your position into such a company!
If you don’t respond to this fair message, you’re for me nothing but a “TROLL” to be definvely banned from this forum (and since I even easily got your IP address: to be banned from any forum worldwide)!
Kind regards.
Grumpy.
Reported to moderators for your unfair behavior!
"Edited for typos"
Are you "speechless" when some real arguments don't go the way you hope they would?
Since you didn't find the time to respond to my note for almost a month, I reported your post as a "troll" to the moderators!
You've been unfair (bad word) both to G-WAN (that obviously you don't know), and to its developer (that you obviously never ever met)!
So far, was your post only but a usual and classic troll against something that (obviously) you don't understand?
I was hoping this very interesting forum would be more serious for such a real and constructive debate using strong and reproductible arguments!
So, please make your homework with G-WAN and come back here with true benchmarks of your own (if you’re able to understand and to install it, use weighttp on a multicore CPU and compare both static and dynamic contents rendered by G-WAN to any other purported leader such as: Apache, Cherokee, Lighttpd, Nginx, Zend and Varnish and if you want also with Glassfish) and let us know your serious analysis.
Now, if you’re a PHP lover (and I never ever won’t blame you for that even if you think that a small 32 words language (ANSI C) is less appropriate than a 6.000+ words (PHP) to develop something useful), ask to the two Zend's boss and purpored self proclamed Web gurus: Zeev Suraski and Andi Gutmans (zeev@zend.com or andi@zend.com) why their bloated damned code EXPLOSES as soon as you try to use it over than one single instance of PHP on a multicore system (available since 1994) and why their PHPembed purportedly thread safe isn't thread safe at all!
If you can get a response from them (I've been awaiting even a simple courtesy response from Zend for months), I will definitely be grateful to you to run some PHP sites with G-WAN.
Now, if you're appointed by any Trusleap and/or G-WAN competitor, it would be safe for all of our mental sanity to know your position into such a company!
If you don’t respond to this fair message, you’re for me nothing but a “TROLL” to be definvely banned from this forum (and since I even easily got your IP address: to be banned from any forum worldwide)!
Kind regards.
Grumpy.
Reported to moderators for your unfair behavior!
"Edited for typos"
Edited by Grumpy, 13 June 2012 - 11:52 PM.
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